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So it was FLO, Nova Lights, PIPS, GoldenNestegg, IT4US, RealityMillions, 12DP, MPDW - and now it’s FXE, NSFG, FXIG, Rog’s offer and many more. They all turn into scam, fail because of incompetence or pretend to fail, but you can’t verify this.
Are you bored? Are you pissed off?
Oh yes, you are. You may still believe the next one will be different. You will continue to play the game. But the lessons were simply too many and too good. You are no longer that naive guy who was thinking about making millions with $100 “investment”. You now know this is a game and you know how to play it.
You don’t invest what you can’t afford to lose and get out your principal as fast as you can. You don’t buy ridiculous admin’s excuses and don’t follow the crowd. You now know this can’t be your real investment portfolio.
It’s time to move on. High yield investing does exist - but it has nothing to do with the HYIP programs. It’s time to move on to something real.
So what are your options… You don’t think I’ll show you some get-rich-quick scheme, do you? The real options for high yield investing may not look as exsiting as the HYIPs, but at least they are real.
Managed accounts
They are probably the closest to the HYIP thing - usually based on forex and often achieving high profits. The managed accounts require high minimum investment (at leats $5,000, most often $25,000) and are risky (but its a trading risk, not a fraud risk).
A good managed account can bring you 50% - 100% yearly ROI and won’t blow more than 10% of your funds in case of lossy trading. (Stay tuned for managed accounts offerings at hywd.info in the near future)
Read more about managed accounts
Self trading
For many HYIP-ers this is the best option. You can start with very little funds and all is within your control. Don’t think you’ll make 1% daily like many HYIPs claim. 4% - 5% monthly will be great enough if you can manage to do it. The biggest disadvantage: strong learning curve. And what many investors miss - it is not a passive investment - it is more like a job.
See some trading tools, books and signals
Stock investing
This is not a day trading, but more about “buy and hold” strategy. You still have to follow the markets and news and sell the stocks if the things start going too wrong with some company. You are still involved, but don’t have to do it all the day.
The biggest negative: most stock investors are happy if their portfolio manages to achieve 15% per year
More about stock investing
Mutual funds
Its usually the same like stock investing, but more secure. Most mutual funds combine stocks with bonds and bank deposits lowering the risk. The good thing is that you don’t need to do anything yourself - just invest and watch your funds grow.
Unfortunately most mutual funds are considered great if they can average 15% per year. However if you can concentrate on the developing countries you may achieve quite better results. (stay tuned for an article on this topic)
The mutual funds are one of my top choices.
Read more about mutual funds
Hedge funds
Similar to mutual funds, but they are often private and the minimums are huge. By default the hedge funds are expected to bring better profits than the mutual funds. But a fraud risk does exist.
See what exactly a hedge fund is.
Real estate
Oh, come on, we are talking about high yield investment. Real estate is not, except you really have access to unique deals. If you target growing economies, you can achieve 10% - 15% per year. But you need a lot of funds and because each unit is big (you can buy a house for $5) the risk of failure is huge.
Don’t do real estate, unless you have experience in that field.
Gambling
I thought you are already investing in HYIPs?
Venture investing
Yet another top choice of mine. But you need large funds. Venture investing means to invest in business - either new or established, your or someone else’s. It means to be an Angel investor - and if you have the funds, you’d better think about this seriously.
Read more about angel investing and venture capital.
Can you think of something more? Let me know please!
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I’m totally agree with you, HYIPs should not for real investment.
But, this is it? Are you also quit this arena Jude?
I’m not quiting
But I’m diversifying as well, so stay tuned for more. Thanks for the write up Tony, excellent work.
Nice post Jude.
This is what we need now. Most people in hyip land know the drill and there is plenty of info about the risks etc.
More info on real investments that can return more than the cash rates at banks but also how do the little investors get into these is also needed. Very few will have $25k to go managed account in forex and venture capital is out for most too - or is it?
CFD’s are a way to get into stocks to get better than average returns and there a ways of using existing stock portfolio’s as leverage without using extra cash.
In Australia investment loans for property and stocks have tax advantages so maybe looking for a type of managed account in options or derivatives might be the answer.
I look forward to your future posts.
Brow
I still believe there is a way to win the game.
But iam still too new to the szene
I’m fully agree as well. I’m actually very happy that I learned that one lesson more than a year ago. Since then I’ve been just playing with all these goldgames, not investing at all. I’ve been quite succesful with goldgames, been making fully living past 15-16 months now. Funny thing about MA forex accounts, I opened a few with profits I made from autosurfing and GoldenRocks and few others. I tried to make some basic DD about them before investing, all were 5 digits minimum and all of them were these 8-15% monthly accounts, sure I thought back then that it could be possible to make such a return because even some highly respected (back then, not anymore) people vouched as well that that could be archived. Off cource none of them knew nothing about forex trading and managed accounts but it just seemed right back then. Well after couple of months, guess what. All the profit I made from goldgames (5 figure) were lost. None of my accounts couldn’t produce profits. And I thought it was safer place to keep funds than autosurfs, well I was wrong. Problems with MA accounts are often that theres usually not enough live trading behind the claims. I’ve been speaking with some professionals and all them agree that if manager could not provide minimum of 24 months (36 is better) live trading results (results should been taking from account minimum of 5 digits), it should consider nothing but a gamble. Well it was a pricey lesson to learn. However I’m always ready to consider another try. 50% annual is a superior return and if you mr Clifton (one of the couple member I still respect), can offer such a managed account I’m highly interested.
I disagree with a couple of your points.
Firstly, trading forex for yourself is certainly not the best way to go. At least 9 out of 10 forex traders lose money. What makes you think you can learn in 12 months how to be one of the exceptions? Much better to give your money to someone with a proven track record in the form of a managed account.
Secondly, real-estate earns way more than 10-15% per year. This is due to leverage. If I buy an investment property worth $100k, I don’t actually need $100k! I only need about 20k. The bank will loan me the rest and my tenants will cover most of my loan repayments. Real-estate earns about 30-40% per year if you use leverage. Also real-estate is very low risk, unless you buy speculative properties or get into new developments.
Gambling - well that depends on what you think is gambling. Certainly playing poker can be profitable if you’re a winning player (about 30% of poker players make money) but at that point it becomes a job rather than an investment.
Interestingly, the guys at HIC has shown that it IS possible to make consistent profit from ponzis purely by getting in early and cashing out quickly. They averaged about 1% per week for the last 12 months. Check it out:
http://www.hyipinvestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=60
They don’t deal with large sums of money though - the club is capped at 1000 shares (currently worth about $12k)
Nice post devil boy!
IT seems like a very pesimistic outlook. Yes, there are many scams, but there are also some good Hyip and auto surfs there. You CAN make a lot of money it you choose the right ones, get in at the right time, and pull profits.
You create your reality, and your thoughts direct actions. Be positive, be smart, do the research and you can win.
I am!
*censored by Jude* - Dude, you wanna exchange links, its okay, but do not leave your personal link behind in comments unless related yep?
I agree that HYIP’s are not the sole way to go. However, I come from the school of thought that believes that trading is gambling as well. Making money comes with degrees of risk and you can negate this by obtaining info. Personally, I do sportsbetting and it appears to be more stable than day trading because you are placing bets based on public perceptions of two particular teams and thus it is hard to manipulate the lines the same way that many hedge funds manipulate the stock prices (by dumping stocks for instance).
Drunkonlife, I disagree sport betting can’t be manipulated, in fact it is a commons sense soccer nowadays are manipulated.
The only thing that make sense to do sport betting is arbitrage betting.
Cool comments, mates. I am also not really quitting the HYIPs, but just wanted to point out they should not be approached as real investment. Its good that everyone got the point
I do believe one can earn from them, and I think my own results are positive - but this is by playing the ponzis, not by threating them as real investment. It is like day trading when you “buy” into some hyip and “sell” few days later instead to “buy and hold” hoping it will be for real.
Unfortunately what you say about MA is true, VillyWiljam. I am still in process of negotiating and searching one which can achieve approx 50% yearly, hope to have something soon.
Devilboy, gettign the loan is a good point. But I still don’t get it how you could make 30% - 40% when the prices are rising less than 10% yearly. Again, unless you know how to find properties which can be sold for more after recovery or without doing anything on them.
For the forex its exactly my though - its good if you can be good at it, and its not investing, but just another job
Quick real-life example for you:
2 years ago I bought a nice 2 bedroom unit near the beach for $400,000. I got a loan for $360,000 - I had to pay a 10% deposit and about $10k in taxes / transfer fees. That’s $50k.
In the first year I got about $17k from my tenants and I had to pay about $24k in loan repayments. That’s another 7k out of my pocket, but luckily I can deduct that loss from my taxes so it actually only cost me $5k
Same for year 2 - I was out of pocket another $5k. So in 2 years the property cost me $60k. This year I wanted to buy another property, so I had this one re-valued so I can take out a second mortgage on it. It came in at $490k - about 10% per year. If I sold right now and paid off my $360k loan, I’d have $130k
So I put in $60k and turned it into $130k in 2 years. That’s about 45% profit.
The reason this works is because I only paid for 15% of the investment ($60k for a $400k flat) but I get to keep 100% of the profits.
Leverage.
Ah, all the insights are pouring in. Devilboy’s comment reminds me of a book that I have on Real Estate Investing, The Millionaire Real Estate Investor, pretty good. Go get it if you’re really into the game.
Very good example, Devil, I missed the renting part.
Here you get around 6% yearly from rent, so it turn into more.
Time to get the book which Jude linked to
Yes the rent helps, but the real profit comes from the leverage. To see this, consider what would have happened if I bought my property outright instead of getting that loan 2 years ago.
I would have spent $400k on the unit and $10k on the fees. I would not have had to pay any loan repayments.
I would still get $17k per year from my tenants, and after 2 years the property is still worth $490k
Thus I put in $410k and got out $524k - that’s only about 14% profit per year! The leverage from your loan makes all the difference.
is hywd.info down ?
Yes, Gabriel, the server is inaccessible at the moment. The support guys should get it up shortly
“Firstly, trading forex for yourself is certainly not the best way to go. At least 9 out of 10 forex traders lose money. What makes you think you can learn in 12 months how to be one of the exceptions? Much better to give your money to someone with a proven track record in the form of a managed account.”
When there’s a will, there’s a way. Money you trade for yourself is the safest form of investment one can get. I haven’t got the time to monitor trading that’s why I have yet to succeed but I believe I can do it if given the time. You create your own destiny!
Systematic and discipline approach to any investment tools should put you somewhere in a good shape most of the time. Be it HYIPs, stocks, forex, futures, options or any kind of investment.
I’m going for forex and ocassional fun soccer betting (winks at Tony)
“I’m going for forex and ocassional fun soccer betting (winks at Tony)”
Hey that reminds me we should renew our picks at the forum
YEAH!
I find the article a little bit pessimistic.
I still believe the Hyip world has a lot to give. I know right now we can count the good programmes with just half of the fingers of one hand…but there are also some new ones emerging from time to time, and I think they are worth considering. And after all… that’s why diversification is for, right?
My goal in this arena is certainly to be a passive investor. All I want to do is monitor the status of my portfolio and that’s it. I certainly didn’t entered this arena to get a job or learn a job, and by this I mean I don’t want to be trading for myself, not at all. In other words, invest the money and leave it to the experts. They will reproduce it, not me.
And that’s why I don’t see myself betting on sports or anything that is too “gamble” oriented.
My next step: managed accounts. There’s a lot to learn and I agree with some previous comment: we should apply a systematic discipline in order to succeed here.
Best Regards to everyone!
I believe —- there is an honest HYIP and competant admin determined to prove the HYIPs meaning high interest investment, not SCAM, is something that can lead one into financial independance. There have been too many scams, its easy to give up. I think I have found 2 sources of wealth creation and am going for it.. will let ya know in 6 months if I made it!
Hint* one of them is not private, but not listed or discussed here. I dont know why!
in the UK we have “spread betting” on so many different markets its easy to have a punt. i am starting to do well with the fx spreads and am looking to make a living from it if possible.
i have had a nightmare year from hell in HYIPS. I found 12daily pro by accident in december 05, went big after two months of test and lost over 6K. Then i paid nearly 4K to PAS to try and re-coup those losses and nothing ever came of that. ( i was a sukker basically)
i DID manage to get some cash back by biting the bullet and going to the max INSTANTLY with pheonix, having three accounts and busting my gut to claw some cash back. i managed to get about half of my prior losses back before they went bye bye.
Then came SI, dadndaves, offshoreclub, and so many many others. All of these were to try and get my initial losses recovered.
i stopped autosurfs and HYIPS in August as i had about 2 thirds recouped when compactsurf and the other big one i cant even remember went. I decided enough was enough.
Almost a year on i have now managed to get get my bank balance bank to almost breakeven by working hard and doing overtime. My two bonus’s this year have been absorbed into this recovery and my family have had “cheaper” holidays. All my own fault, chasing the dream !!
i still have funds in NSFG !!, PIU !!, and FPC !!. i doubt i will ever see anything from those.. but i have divorced myself from this arena now and will go back to “looking after my own destiny” instead of expecting somebody else to do it for me.
I wish i had never been introduced to 12dailypro. and regret ever believing those first ever test payments could be real.
I believe in diversification, and for me that means I keep no more than 20% in unregulated e-gold programs.
By the way, I was paid by Rog PPP1 last week.
A nice post. Any investment need risk to have some reward. People just have to smart to choose. And i agree that “there is no free lunch” so you have to work (spending time, read, research ect) to have a good result. Not just the money problem.
Nowadays, HYIP world more become unpredictible. new pop up and gone, old one have problem, ect. Some have optimist with forex things stick on self trading and manage account, some still stay and fight in hyip field.
I almost quit in HYIP field and start a more real investment and i pick forex as starting point. I dont dream to have rich quick with it but at least i control my own risk and my reward.
I do agree with Devildboy that forex is not just as simple as it look like. Need more and more hard work to get a good result, not just eat your time also your money. Finally, some will give up and some stay and survive.
Well, being in the post-newb semi-vet stage of my HYIP development I have a couple comments to make (with a brief preamble).
I got into the world of HYIPs in June. Actually, I saw my first ‘monitoring’ site in May and got totally sucked in. After a brief review I jumped in and we all know EXACTLY how those go. I lost 80% right off the top in that first month. During those Dark Days I found the various forums and blogs and have been gleaning ever bit of info I can from ALL those sources since then.
I agree for those that ignore the numerous sources of info and choose to roll dice, they will lose the majority of the time; the VAST majority of the time. As of the end of September I was even. As of the end of October I made double in that month than what I take home from ‘work’. As of the end of December I will have doubled my money.
I have NO DOUBT that more programs will fail (a 10% failure rate per month is what I’m projecting) but with the proper DD and with the experience I’ve gained my ‘retirement fund’ will continue to grow.
My recommendation? Don’t give up. Get better at picking winners.
What programs are you in Propellertop? I have been 1/4 successful in hyip since i started in October 2005. Got to know about surfs then found forums and blogs.
Everything looks impressive and good on paper. But in reality after a year, i am no where near the break even point. Maybe next year since i have gotten smarter now.
Even the safe ones like FXE and NSFG will be down for months to recover.
Interesting thought!!!
I found HYIP and Autosurf arena in Sept 2004 I think. My first one was Studio Traffic where I put in $1,000. I actually got a lot of profit from this one. Within one year I tripled my seed money and got a few more programs to play.
Thus, I have to agree to we can make quick money in these fields. However, by looking at the amount of money I lost in other programs. I should also say it’s a very risky game. This was the reason why I stopped looking at HYIP for around 6 months before starting again last month (it’s too attractive to be ignored :)).
Forex strategy is certainly applicable here. Always manage your entry and exit points on any program. Without it, I think you lose.