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I spent 5 hours on the phone and in conference with Craig, Kerry and Troy discussing the concerns brought up in the comments on the review and interview articles. I hope that this article will alleviate some of the concerns about EarnByLoaning. I understand that there will always be people who will be positive, negative or neutral. This article is intended to clarify some issues, not to persuade anyone that has already made up their mind. As with any program, please seek multiple sources of information and do your own verification to determine if a program is for you or not. (ADD Warning: This is another one of my long articles!)
General
I asked Craig why he is borrowing from people, rather than a bank. He replied that in order to get a bank loan, he would have to secure it with assets. In addition, there are FDIC (US alphabet commission that regulates banking) guidelines that prohibits a bank from loaning for investments of this nature.
I also asked for Craig’s opinion on why EBL seems to get a lot of scoffers. He said that he really didn’t know, but thinks it could be trolls, HYIP program administrators and/or HYIP monitor owners. They aren’t members, because the members are all pleased. I asked him why EBL isn’t on any of the HYIP monitor sites. He said that there are two reasons. First, he wants to distance EBL away from the ponzi HYIPs. Second, EBL does not, nor does it ever intend to, pay for advertisements anywhere. He said that because EBL does not need new money to grow, then there is no reason to pay for advertising. He gets 8-10 emails per week from HYIP monitor owners asking for money to list EBL on their site. I asked him why he agreed to posts here and he answered, “My preference is that if we are going to be talked about, we want to answer questions, instead of blind posts. We are not hiding out”. They welcome all questions.
I also asked Craig what he would like to say to those being negative without really looking into EBL. He answered, “Join the program, and try it out first. Then if you’re still negative, shoot your mouth off or just go away.” I think that is a fair answer.
Here is the link to the Nevada, Secretary of State website where the incorporation details of Quest Holdings, Inc., are located. The “Status” field with the “Default on” date means that the information defaulted from last year’s info. That is, nothing has changed. It does not mean that the corporation is in default. (Thanks Nelson!)
PayPal
I was asked if I verified that PayPal really did investigate EBL. I can now answer that, yes, I have confirmed it. I talked to two parties that were involved. First I talked to the person that referred the big spender and afterwards I talked to the person that made the $10K spend from PayPal to EBL at one time. I’d like to reiterate that I have first hand knowledge that PayPal does investigate all $10K transactions.
The $10K spend was made on November 10th, 2006, followed by a second, smaller spend on November 11th. PayPal froze EBL’s account until December 11th, 2006. During the month long hold, EBL had to send in ID documents and business documents about the transaction. When PayPal was satisfied they released EBL’s account and allowed the transaction. PayPal has not questioned any transactions since and they approved allowing EBL’s continued use.
Both people I talked to confirmed that this is what happened, although neither had first hand knowledge of the hoops that EBL had to jump through to satisfy PayPal. Craig gave me a list of things that PayPal asked for. Rather than reading the list here, please see my PayPal Investigates Transactions $10K+ thread at NoBS Network.
Disclosure
EBL is not classified as a securities broker, because they are not selling securities. They are borrowing money and can not tell the lenders what they do with the money. The only thing that they are legally allowed to tell is included in the Lender’s Agreement, which is how long they are borrowing money and how much they will return to the lender. Anything more may change their classification. Craig said, “The SEC gets involved when it is a secured interest loan and it is inter-state commerce, which falls under the jurisdiction of the SEC.” EBL spent months with lawyers to come up with their business model.
There is a member that has a self-guided Roth IRA with an accredited financial institution (name withheld for security reasons.) The financial institution investigates and approves/disapproves the transactions for the IRA. (Note: Individual Retirement Accounts risk guidelines are stricter than non-retirement risks.) EBL is in the process of gathering all of the information that the financial institution requested. It includes a full disclosure of what EBL does to make the guaranteed returns. It will be sent to the financial institution this week. It may take up to another 30 days to finish the process, depending on how fast the financial institution reviews the information and if they need additional information. EBL can do a full disclosure to this 3rd party accredited institution without changing its classification. You can read the member’s post at NoBS Network in the EBL thread.
Guaranteed Returns and Lender’s Agreement
I have had the Lender’s Agreement verified by a contract lawyer. He approved of the document and said that it is legally binding in Pennsylvania, where I’m located. Although he believes that the language is vanilla enough for all states, he put a request out on the internet asking other lawyers, especially those in Nevada and Washington. The lawyer then cautioned me that if it comes to litigation to receive the returns, there will probably need to be a suit filed in Nevada and then moved to Washington. He said that the multiple states makes suing more difficult. I mentioned that if it came to that, there would probably one lawyer handling all of the complaints for the lenders. He said that one attorney would be most efficient. (See section 1.7 of the Lender’s Agreement for more information.)
The Lender’s Agreement is similar in form and language to the agreement that you must sign when you take out a loan from a bank. If you default on paying the bank back, they have the written agreement to get the money out of you. The same thing applies with EBL’s Lender’s Agreement in reverse. Someone asked about other documents that accompany a lender’s agreement, such as a promissory note. The promissory note and other documents are all rolled into the EBL Lender’s Agreement to make things easier for both the lender and the borrower.
What this means is that they are the first public program that guarantees the promised returns and backs it up with a legally binding contract, which I know about. If you look at the TOS, you will see the guarantee there, too. Check out the TOS of any other program you are in. Please, let me know if you find one that doesn’t have a disclaimer about returns not being guaranteed.
GC Script and New, Custom Script
Troy and Kerry gave me a bit of a history lesson for EBL. They started out as just friends and family for months. During this phase they looked around for an inexpensive script that would meet their needs. A guy sold them the GC script, bugs, open source code, and all. It didn’t quite fit, but it was as close as they could find at the time. They did not know that it was a bootleg script. Until people started asking recently about the GC license, neither of them had even heard of GoldCoder scripts. Those that don’t play HYIP games, probably never hear of GC. Kerry is a programmer, so he fixed the bugs, turned off things like automatic payments and fixed the holes. He regularly tests the changed script for holes.
OK, most of us know what a GC script looks like and can spot it from the home page. We also know that there are real, licensed GC scripts and bootleg ones. I’m not going to debate on what Craig, Kerry and Troy knew or didn’t know back then. They know now.
However, they are close to launching a brand new, custom script. They can’t give an exact date, but I did pin them down to launching in late June. The new script will have a completely new look and feel. Currently they are in the phase of obtaining licenses for all of the sub-processes that they’ve purchased. They should be done inserting the licensed processes by the end of this week or next week. Then they will have a live URL and will begin the first testing phase. I received permission to view the new, custom script while they are testing it. They also said that the last testing phase will run a simulation of a year’s worth of data. That’s a good sign that they’ll hopefully find most of the bugs before launching.
Please give them some leeway after launching. No matter how much they test it, there are bound to be things that crop up. It may be up and down during the first few weeks as they get it stabilized. Lender records and returns will not be impacted at all.
The new script will contain some changes to the way things are done. However, the TOS, including the loan plans, are not changing. There is no need to change plan terms, because they match what they are able to produce. However, they do reserve the right to make changes, if their returns change. Right now they are able to produce more than expected, so the reserve fund is growing. (No, I am not privy to how much is in the reserve fund or how much it is growing by.)
In addition, no new payment processors, such as MoneyBookers, will be added in the new script. They may add new payment processors in the future, if they get requests. The more payment processors allowed, the higher the fees and the greater the risk for injection hijackers. They picked the two most widely used payment processor/e-currencies and feel that they are sufficient for now. Almost all current loans were done via PayPal.
The EBL domain name is stuck in the Registerfly fiasco, which was reported here. ICANN is not really helping with domain names. They are not forcing Registerfly to release the domains, even though they stripped Registerfly of all accreditation. ICANN is forcing domain name owners to jump through a lot of hoops. Quest Holdings does own a couple of more domain names that are not registered with Registerfly and are already propagated. If the EBL domain name is still being held hostage by Registerfly when the new script is ready for launch, Quest may chose to launch the script with one of the other domain names. If they do, all data, including lender information, is kept offline already, so they would just move it with the new script to the new domain name. There will be no service interruption.
Other
We also had some discussions about what it costs to incorporate in Nevada (~$1,200 + lawyer fees) and what it would entail to become a security broker under the SEC regulations (too much information that is irrelevant, since EBL does not fit within SEC jurisdiction.) In addition, there were discussions about Forex, Hedgefunds, etc. and why EBL does not do those high risk instruments. I am very, very impressed with Craig’s financial knowledge. He has obviously been widely involved in the financial business for many years. His knowledge about so many different aspects of the financial industry increased my comfort level.
There was a final discussion about holding an open conference/Q&A on a regular basis, like monthly. If they do, I will let you know. It will be open to anyone that has questions about EBL.
Housekeeping
There are some housekeeping tips that Troy and Kerry asked me to pass along.
- Please either turn on allow cookies or use IE when joining. When cookies aren’t allowed, the referrer is not set properly. Cookies are only needed for the registration, after that you can go back to your favorite browser.
- If you want to loan EBL money, please use the buttons on the site. Never send funds directly to EBL. This is good advice for all programs.
- When you loan money using the site, please follow through until you are back at the site. Closing out too soon means that the transaction isn’t complete and won’t be posted to your account.
- EBL does not accept credit cards in any form, including through a loan from PayPal.
- EBL lowered the PayPal withdraw fee to 3%. E-Gold is 8%. The E-Gold fees are due to in and out exchanges from 3rd party exchangers and bank fees, simple as that. The new PayPal fees will be done manually, until the new script is in place. The new script will calculate it automatically. For the current script, you will see the old calculations in your history, but your payment will reflect the new fee.
If you still have issues about EarnByLoaning, please feel free to post them below. Remember that all opinions (good, bad and neutral) are welcome. Please try to post your reasoning for your opinion. Also, remember that you should use many sources and only you can determine your comfort level (or lack of) for any program. Never join a program just because I say so or so-and-so says so. Only loan money that you do not have any other intensions for its use.
JMO - Sharon
Popularity: 7% [?]
A very comprehensive follow up by Sharon. Probably the next thing to wait for is the third party audit results on EBL before deciding on the next step.
Thnx sharon for these infos. That clarifies a lot of things!
I think that the high withdrawl fee on the e-gold withdrawals is excessive. For me, it’s one of the larget turn-offs to the program. Seriously, what exchanger are they using? A place like The Bullion Exchange will take care of you for 2-3%. And if they’re accepting e-gold for deposits, they should easily be able to esablish an e-gold reserve that cuts those costs to nothing.
I agree with Conciliator, the e-gold withdrawal fee is quiet high. I think it’s the highest of any program I’ve ever been part of or seen. It’s a real let down. I think they should reconsider their withdrawal fees structure.
8% turnaround doesnt sound excessive to me Conciliator.
the egold fee to accept it… then 2 or 3 percent each way to exchange it.. plus another egold fee to get it back in from exchanger… plus bank wire fees.
I see Conciliator and Shermon, don’t understand how we work. If you read Sharons interview you will see we address the high Egold withdrawal percentages.
When you are charged for receiving, charged for third party withdrawing, charged for depositing by third party those fees add up quickly. Who is going to pay for that?
Any one with an understanding of how expensive it is to operate a real business knows you have to recoup those losses somewhere.
One questions Sharon What recourse do people have if the company files for bankruptcy chapter 7?
Hi Curt,
From http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/bankruptcybasics/chapter7.html
The chapter of the Bankruptcy Code providing for “liquidation,” ( i.e., the sale of a debtor’s nonexempt property and the distribution of the proceeds to creditors.)
A chapter 7 bankruptcy case does not involve the filing of a plan of repayment as in chapter 13. Instead, the bankruptcy trustee gathers and sells the debtor’s nonexempt assets and uses the proceeds of such assets to pay holders of claims (creditors) in accordance with the provisions of the Bankruptcy Code. Part of the debtor’s property may be subject to liens and mortgages that pledge the property to other creditors. In addition, the Bankruptcy Code will allow the debtor to keep certain “exempt” property; but a trustee will liquidate the debtor’s remaining assets. Accordingly, potential debtors should realize that the filing of a petition under chapter 7 may result in the loss of property.
——————
Since Craig Jolly is listed as the sole owner of the corporation, all corporation assets and non-expemt personal assets would be sold to pay off the debts. (See section 1.7 of the Lender’s Adreement.)
Once again, I am not a lawyer, so that is my interpertation of what I’ve been told and what I’ve read. My interpertation may be incomplete or inaccurate.
JMO,
Sharon
Thanks Sharon!
Hi Sharon,
I’ve been looking into the program and Nevada eSOS, and (as usual) wondering about a few things but would like to ask this first as you wrote:
” The “Status” field with the “Default on” date means that the information defaulted from last year’s info. That is, nothing has changed. It does not mean that the corporation is in default. (Thanks Nelson!)”
I believe you had that definition from Nelson.
…Ok so I should ask Nelson (hope he’s around)?:
Would you mind to share with us where you had that info regarding “Default status” from?
This is no way a cross-examination Lol just wondering, I’m not holding a gun at you
Thank you in advance!
Yuko,
The explanation came from Kerry, one of the admins. Get in touch with them if you need any further specifics on the matter. They really are a friendly bunch.
Hi Yuko,
I saw your post about the default status. I asked Craig about that when I saw it and he reassured me it was nothing more then they were using the same info as the year before.
What they do is change the default status to an update when the company changes it’s info from the last previous submission of information.
On another note, another bothersom question keeps popping up here and in our support from nonmembers.
“Why is your Egold withdrawal rates so high”.
Well here is why, https://www.e-forexgold.com/exchange.php
calculate selling gold, making a bank wire transfer, rebuying egold by bankwire and having it deposited into the egold account.
If you understand the rates, we are still lower then what it actually costs us in most cases. We still eat some of the cost.
Why don’t some of these people who want to know why we charge so much ask those other programs why they charge so little?
Well pointing to an expensive exchanger doesn’t justify anything. I could probably find one that charges 10%. Also, why are you needing to do bank wire transfers? Why can’t you do direct deposits into the exchanger’s acount (2-3% at TBE) and from the exchanger into your account (1% at TBE). There shouldn’t be any bank wire fees. If there are, you need to make some changes to the way you buy and sell e-gold. They have lots of Wells Fargos in NV. Use them and do direct deposits.
Also, why can’t you set up an e-gold reserve where there’s an influx and efflux of gold for deposits and withdrawals, respectively? You might need to buy or sell e-gold every now and then, but a majority of the transfers would be expense fee. In essence, people who have investments and who are cashing their withdrawals would be selling them to the new investors who are making deposits. The actual money in your investments wouldn’t move anywhere, unless there was a net change. This should cut the already low e-gold exchange rates much, much further.
I think that EBL either needs to make some changes to the program (e.g. setting up a reserve, using an inexpensive exchanger, and using direct deposits) or, if they’ve already done these things, they need to stop making excuses for the high exchange rates.
Hi Conciliator,
You’ve got some excellent points for anyone wanting to loan via e-gold and get paid back into e-gold. Right now something like 92% of the loans are PayPal, so I suspect that finding cheaper ways to inx and outx e-gold hasn’t been a priority.
Having said that, the readership of this blog is probably heavier users of e-gold, than they are of PayPal (some heavy users of both.) So, it would be beneficial for EBL to find ways to better accommodate those with e-gold.
Are their Wells Fargo banks in Washington State? Although EBL is incorporated in Nevada, they are located in Washington State.
Kerry or Troy: What are your thoughts on Concilitor’s suggestions?
Thanks,
Sharon
Yes, the readership here probably relies primarily on e-gold.
Personally, I’m very interested in EBL and would consider making a sizable loan. It sounds like they’ve done many things to establish themselves that leave their ponzi competitors in the dust. If they could optimize their system and get withdrawal fees to 2% via e-gold, for example, it would make the program much more appealing. And that’s because we’d be making more money, rather than the exchangers.
There are several Wells Fargos in WA state.
Thanks for your feedback Sharon.
EBL_Admin: Have a look at IceGold - http://www.icegold.com - it’s only 2% for e-gold purchases and they are very fast.
For selling the gold to bank-wire - LondonGoldExchange - http://www.londongoldexchange.com - 1%.
I think the bigger issue is the fluctuation in the gold price itself against the USD, which could mean you guys get eaten up if the USD/gold price moves against you from the time you accepted a deposit to the time you’re paying the lender back their principal
They won’t want to use a foreign exchanger like IceGold that only accepts bank wires. The bank wire charge can be avoided entirely by using a domestic exchanger that accepts direct deposits.
Hi Conciliator, I dunno if a measly $25 wire fee really makes a difference on the scale in which they’re operating
In any case, if they are in the US as you say there are probably exchangers there too that have good rates.
I don’t know any that can beat LGE’s 1% out-exchange fee though
Sure it’ll make a difference, especially if they’re buying and selling frequently (though I think they can reduce that substantially by creating a reserve). It’s the investors who are paying for it on the withdrawal fee.
The Bullion Exchange, here in the US, does 2-3% for in exchange and 1% for out exchange. They accept direct deposit at any Wells Fargo bank (with thousands in the US) and they can pay out to any Wells Fargo account, without any bank fees whatsoever.
I have enjoyed the thoughtful discourse happening here concerning EBL. It is obvious Jude has attracted a better than average grade of readership.
My primary concern with EBL is the fact that they say they don’t have to register with the SEC because they claim we are making loans to them and they are not selling securities.
I think they want to be very sure about this. Global is going through a SEC audit right now even though they Global clearly stated that all members were making loans to the company.
Here is a copy and paste of a SEC ruling.
In the leading opinion, the Supreme Court of the United States, held that the definition of a security includes an investment contract, which is “a contract, transaction, or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or third party…” Designating such instruments as “loans” does not alter their legal status as securities. SEC v. W.J. Howey Co., et. al, 328 U.S. 293, 66 S. Ct.1100, 90 L.Ed. 1244 (1946).
The source is the US Department of the Treasury. One of the pages that carries that statement is this one:
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/cc/ccphony9.htm
It seems to me that this is a “gray” area at best and generally the SEC can do whatever it wants.
On the other hand….
Pennsylvania has some of the strictest rules in the union when it comes to what they call a security. If the lawyer referenced in the previous post by Sharon was from Pennsylvania this maybe good news.
I suspect the owners of EBL have the best of intentions. But, before a person starts dumping big money in the program, they may want to be very sure there will be no outside influences from the ABC agencies.
JMHO
Paul
Paul,
That is a great post. Thanks for the info. A gray area indeed.
But I still feel like I am dealing with a company that will really take care of the people who loan them money. Even if the law comes down on them. I think they will do right by us and that is why I am in the program.
Hi Paul,
Thank you for the information. I was reading the SEC clarifications at http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=19811 last night.
I specifically asked Craig about the SEC and he used Global Online Depository as an example. In G.O.D. people loaned them money for their inventory, which they turned around and sold to generate returns. The inventory beomes the security. Therefore, they were receiving secured interest loans, which meets the SEC definition.
For EBL, we are just loaning them money and setting the terms for the loan up front. They are paying back the loan. We do not know how they are coming up with the money to pay back the loans and the interest, so the loans are unsecured. If they were to tell us that they were doing this or that with the money, then the loans would be secured. (At least that’s how I understand it.)
The other thing that doesn’t meet the SEC guidelines is that EBL is not publically soliciting for funds. Yes, they have a website, but they do zero advertising. They don’t advertise online or offline. If members want to tell others about the loans, then that’s different than EBL solicitations.
It is a very fine line and a gray area, indeed. The lawyer I talked to is from Pennsylvania. We talked about if the Lender’s Agreement is legally binding (yes) and what would happen if EBL defaults on the loan. We did not discuss any alphabet regulations. The lawyer is a contract lawyer, primarily for real estate, so I’m unsure about his expertise in the SEC.
JMO,
Sharon
Hi Sharon,
Thanks for your comment and that clarification regarding the difference between a secured and an unsecured loan.
There is also issue of usury laws. Most states have laws stating the maximum someone can charge on a loan.
For instance, I live in Michigan and the most a lender that is not a bank or licensed pawnbroker can charge is 7% p.a. Anything more than that is considered usury and against the law.
Each state has their own rates.
Here is a descent resource explaining how usury works
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/ban02.htm
The simple way around these laws is to incorporate offshore and make the offering a non-public offering.
BTW
According to my understanding of the rules. If an offering is made on the internet it is considered public. Period
Right now anyone can happen onto the Earn By loan site.
They would need to put a disclaimer on their home page and password protect the site so that not just anyone can happen on to the site.
Paul
Nelson and EBL_admin:
Thank you for answering my question.
No disrespect to the owner but I would like such information confirmed by the third party (better still, by Nevada SOS themselves).
Is a certificate of incorporation available to EBL members for a view?
Sharon:
I seem concerned about the status of Quest Holdings but, is that matter to anything at all; e.g. Lender’s agreement or Guarantee of returns?
That is, if there was no Quest Holdings in behind of EBL… would the guarantee still be valid?
HI Yuko,
I’m not really sure what you’re asking or getting at. You can see the incorporation information at the Nevada SOS. Click here.
Quest Holdings, Inc. is the corporation. EBL is just the domain name that they chose for their web presense. If there was no Quest Holdings, there would be in EBL. The contract, Lender’s Agreement, is with Quest Holdings.
Did I answer your question? I’m not really sure if this what you are looking for. If I didn’t answer, please let me know.
Thanks,
Sharon
Sharon, you quoted:
“Right now something like 92% of the loans are PayPal, so I suspect that finding cheaper ways to inx and outx e-gold hasn’t been a priority.”
One reason why 92% of the loans are PayPal could be because the e-gold fees are too high!
The fact that the majority are using PayPal suggests that many are not signing up because the e-gold fees are high ie. the e-gold users are staying away…. an oxymoron don’t you think?
I would like to use Paypal since the fees are low but I can’t because I can’t withdraw from Paypal in my country.
I have to agree with Conciliator on his point. If EBL can lower their e-gold fees or provide an alternative payment processor, I will sign up.
Curt you asked
” What recourse do people have if the company files for bankruptcy chapter 7″
Technically we have recourse but realistically there is no recourse. Sure you can sue the company for loses but if the company has no assets at the time of bankruptcy all we can do is place a judgment against the company, not the owner of the company. Of course this depends on how the company is structured.
If it structured as a C-corp or LLC, all liability ends with the company assets not personal assets. That is why people incorporate in the first place.
Conciliator:
Has it dawned on you that Ecurrency rates are high so that EBL can discourage their usage? There are a whole set of problems that come into play when you start dealing with them.
In a lot of ways e-currency make life easier, but there are definite security issues one has to deal with if you choose to work with them.
It may have been you that suggested and egold “float” to limit the cost of moving funds in and out of trade. Holding a “float” can dramatically reduce the overall return on funds invested. This will effect EBL’s earnings on all loans made to them. In-turn, it may effect the earnings to members. If the funds are sitting in egold, they can not be in trade.
Best wishes
Paul
If we followed someones advice and built up a reserve in Egold of say, $20k and the market dropped like it did last summer, and we had to payout loans through Egold of say $10,000.00, Quest Holdings would have been handed it’s perverbial ass.
That’s not something we are willing to live with. The precious metal market is to chaotic to count on.
I am seriously inclined to recommend to the owner, Craig, to just drop Egold all together as a payment processor. Payout the loans we have already and be done with it.
This may seriously deplete our membership, but that is the price of protecting a programs integrity. It would not affect the remaining members because as we have said all along, we do not need new members or new money to keep meeting our obligations.
I will meet with Troy and Craig and we will seriously discuss this.
Hi Sharon,
“The contract, Lender’s Agreement, is with Quest Holdings.”
–In that case, I would wait until this “Default Status” gets cleared - regardless of what the owner explained about it.
Sharon, what would be the best way to contact you directly? (apart from IM) - if that’s ok to do so… Thanks.
yuko
yuko,
You could go to the contact page of the Nevada SOS and ask about the meaning. It’s up to you. They have a Status Division. You probably will have to wait — a lot.
No offense meant, you will have a long time to wait. I don’t think EBL will waste money filing a piece of paper just to make that status say updated this year, LOL!
In the mean time, I will keep getting paid. I just got paid directly to my PayPal account just a few minutes ago.
HI Yuko,
You can email me here. Also, Nelson is right. If Quest doesn’t make any update changes year after year, the status will remain “default”, meaning no changes. I view no changes as a good thing.
JMO,
Sharon
First, the price of gold is not going to drop in half, and when it does drop significantly, it’s not going to happen overnight . During last summers plunge, for example, gold dropped 25% over the course of 4 weeks, from peak to trough. If you had a 20k reserve, it would have dropped in value to 15k, and that’s if you had bought it all at the peak, which is a silly assumption. If you had bought it a few months before the peak, all that 25% drop would reflect is a drop back to where gold had been 4 months earlier. E-gold rebounded pretty quickly after the plunge anyway. Quest Holdings wouldn’t have been “handed it’s perverbial ass.”
Second, it wouldn’t matter much if gold dropped in the first place, since incoming spends would continue to offset outgoing withdrawals at the going rate. There would only be an actual loss on the net change. You’d learn pretty quickly how incoming and outgoing spends relate to each other, and if you’d commonly be buying additional gold for the reserve (withdrawls generally outpace deposits) or if you’d commonly be selling excess gold (deposits generally outpace withdrawls).
Third, gold is generally on the way up. You can speculate about a drop in the price of gold that might make the company incur a loss, but it would be counterbalanced with a steadily increasing gold value and profits. Just look at the history of gold over the last 10 or 20 years, or even the last 2 or 3.
Fourth, all you addressed was the reserve, while ignoring the issue of the actual exchange rates from prominent exchangers. Even with no reserve at all, it should only cost 1% for you to cash e-gold deposits and an additional 2-3% to exchange back into e-gold for withdrawals. That still leaves you at less than 4% of the withdrawl amount, half of what you’re currently charging. Of course, a reserve could cut that 4% in half again, easily.
I think the talk about telling Craig to drop e-gold altogether is rhetoric designed to get people to accept the status quo, since 8% is better than no e-gold at all, right? I think that it’s truly ridiculous to say that e-gold should be removed to “protect the program’s integrity”. Give me a break.
Now why is EBL charging 8 freaking percent when all the exchanges (in and out) should amount to less than 4 percent of the withdrawl amount? Let’s get a straight answer on that, since it hasn’t yet been addressed.
Conciliator you said
“First, the price of gold is not going to drop in half,
and when it does drop significantly, it’s not going to
happen overnight.”
How do you know this? Are you the all knowing GURU
everyone is seeking to tell them when things are good
or going to get bad? I don’t think you can predict the
future.
You also have the oddasity to say lossing $5k is
acceptable. Maybe in your world, but not in ours.
Our responsability is to ensure our program
continues to meet it’s obligations without putting
the company at risk.
Your second and third points are just ludicrous. Talk
about double talk. Your scenerio is what the Forex guys
do. We don’t do Forex, that is as far as that explanation
will go.
Your fourth point was addressed previously, you just
wish not to acknowledge that we addressed it. Why don’t
you go back and reread the interview, comments and the
forum threads here.
You are not in a position to tell us how we should run
our business. We have been very successful and will
continue to be successful because we know how to keep
our program safe and profitable.
Accusing us of trying to manipulate the members is the
ridiculous statement. We do not need to manipulate our
membership. I don’t spew BS. What I said was factual in
nature. We can live without any precious metal processor.
I suggest those who do not like the idea of an 8% egold exchange fee find some other way of loaning money to the company or move on.
No one is forcing you to put your money with EBL. This is their company and they can charge as much as they like for egold deposits.
Best wishes
I think EBL_admin’s case against e-Gold has just found an ally in the US government.
Digital Currency Business E-Gold Indicted for Money Laundering and Illegal Money Transmitting
Thanks Nelson,paul.
Do you seriously think that there’s a reasonable risk that the price of gold will drop in half overnight? Haha, give me a break.
I never said that losing 5k is acceptable. I was pointing out how such a loss would be very, very unlikely, and that if a loss did occur, it would likely be transient.
My second and third points are not ludicrous at all. Why don’t you address them specifically and make an actual refutation, rather than discount them as double talk? There’s nothing ambiguous there at all. It makes perfect sense that “incoming spends would continue to offset outgoing withdrawals at the going rate” and that there is a “steadily increasing gold value”. This was a fallacious red herring.
And no, you still have not explained how an 8% fee is justified in the least. I’ve given cogent argument for why it should be no more than half what it currently is. You have failed to address this and it’s troubling that you’re failing to acknowledge it. It suggests to me that you know that the exchange is not as expensive as you’re making it out to be, but that you don’t want people to know that since you’re the ones keeping that extra money. Or maybe you’re just embarassed you’ve been blowing your client’s money on unnecessary exchange fees. Either way, doesn’t look very good.
Personally, I think that your failure to specfically rebut any of my points reflects poorly on the company. That was not a professional response. I’ve lost my interest in EBL and confidence in its administration.
You’re right, I’m not in a position to tell you how you should run your business. I will point out to, others, however, when it appears that you don’t know how to run your business efficently.
Hmm,
I wonder what people think of my words now about Egold. You better take heed to Nelsons posting. Looks like all the Egold type of companies are going under the microscope of the U.S. government.
Speaking about the high withdrawal fees for e-gold, i wonder why EBL does not accept e-bullion e-currency?
I wanted to invest few days ago, but couldn’t because i stopped using e-gold few months ago, and considering what happened today im very happy that i did that.
Pardon for my english, and regards from Europe.
Hi igorce,
We actually opened an E-bullion account and was going to use them, but we eventually decided not to. With what is going on now with gold exchangers here in the U.S., I am glad we didn’t. Those precious metal sites that are operating and taking U.S. currency are in for a rough time of it over the next few years.
I can only imagine how many HYIP programs are going to close after this.
quote from article of indictment:
The indictment alleges that E-Gold has been a highly favored method of payment by operators of investment scams, credit card and identity fraud, and sellers of online child pornography”.
Everyone should read the article and check it’s sources for accuracy, just to satisfy your curiousity if it’s true or not.
Conciliator said…
maybe you’re just embarassed you’ve been blowing your client’s money on unnecessary exchange fees. Either way, doesn’t look very good.
so IF EBL has had extra profits from fees, how is putting this into extra returns for members,paying for support staff,building a new site and the dozens of other transactions….BLOWING money as you say?
You have seriously underestimated why we do things.
We will continue to go on stronger than ever, now that E-Gols owners have been nabbed…and you can go on with your life.
Conciliator I wish you all the best in life and if you do not choose to join us and the exciting things coming up in the near future, I respect that..and wish you well.
Kind Regards
Troy
I think we’re blowing this out of proportion when we talk about E-gold and Paypal.
E-gold remains and always will be my favourite ecurrency despite having indictions now.
If EBL accepts Paypal and only accepts that, I’m sure they definitely have their reasons and preferences. Just like apple to oranges.
Let’s keep the discussion clean and not bash E-gold or Paypal for now; I’m getting a little sick of seeing discussions getting out of hand.
Troy, it looks like you misread my last post. I said “maybe you’re just embarassed you’ve been blowing your client’s money on unnecessary EXCHANGE fees.” That is definitely money down the drain. Paying for bank wire transfer fees or high exchange rates is just bad research into the available exchange options.
Second, in the event EBL is making a profit from the exchnage fee, the fact that it might translate into a more successful company doesn’t justify anything. Based on that logic, they might as well charge a 16% fee, since EBL will be even more successful and can make even better returns. No. The returns should be from what they actually earn on the loans. They’re making money on the money we’re loaning them. They shouldn’t be making it on our earnings withdrawals. As far as I know, there’s no evidence that this money is appropriated for “extra returns for members”, and if it is, that would be inappropriate. You don’t inflate your rate of return by hiking up processing fees.
Well Jude,
I will put an end to this Egold discussion. We have decided to terminate Egold as a paymnet option effective immediately. End of story.
Fair enough my friend, so Paypal is the only option. Btw I understand that credit card funded Paypal will not be accepted as well.
The only people that can join EBL are those with at least a US Banking account, I assume? Since thats the only option to fund paypal by bankwire?
Sorry Jude, but we do accept Bank checks as well, and we are going to talk today about accepting personal checks from countries the U.S. government has fair trading practices with.
I am not sure how Craig will view this, but I think it is an alternative that needs serious consideration since we have dropped Egold.
As for Paypal, I am not exactly sure how their international system works for accepting funding sources. As you probably already know, the reason we do not take CC’s is fairly simple, rampant fraud and charge backs trying to rip off the program.
If there was a way to distinquish a debitcard/prepaid cash card transaction from a CC transaction , we would probably accept it. But for now we have no decernable way to do that at Paypal.
I know with Paypal they accept online checks, but that doesn’t help when a withdrawal is made by a member lender.
This is something we will be researching to try to give lenders more avenues of funding/withdrawal outside of Ecurrency exchangers.
If you have any suggesstions for us to research, they are more then welcome, outside of precious metals.
I think for international customers, you should definitely consider accepting wire transfer.
igorce,
I think you missed something, we do accept Bankwires.
Certified checks, money orders, bankwires and PayPal are all accepted. They are considering adding personal checks for countries approved by the US.
Checks, bankwires and PayPal are the withdraw methods.
Hopefully, they’ll look at a couple of non-precious metal digital methods. Mark did an article on WebMoney and it looks promising. You can read it here. Perhaps EBL will consider it, when it opens up for NorthAmerica.
JMO,
Sharon
Jude, the international members can fund their Paypal with a CC. For instance I live in Austria and I can fund my Paypal with my CC but there are some restrictions: NOT every countries are allowed to fund their Paypal with a CC (I think they are listed in our Paypal acct). BUT the paychecks are only for US residents.
Hi Luc,
Just remember, If in your country you can fund your paypal account directly from a c/c and those funds land in your paypal account to then be used as cash, then this is fine.
If it is a direct C/C payment to EBL via PayPal, we will reverse the loan.
Hope that helps.
Also..Conciliator,
Although we may or may not agree with your comments,we do not want to or have not the time to go into a head on discussion with you about why we do things.
As kerry said We have decided to terminate Egold as a payment option effective immediately. End of story.
Guys if you get the time to jump on skype and talk to us you would see where we are coming from and out intentions behind what we do and that we do indeed care about the EBL members.
We have watched for years as people have been ripped off on the internet and we are contributing to putting a stop to this.
Speak to sharon,nelson or anyone else about the lengthy conversations we have had with them about EBL.
Did we have the time to speak to them..No..but we did anyway, because we do it for the members.
Now that E-Gold is no longer a payment option, we can put our energies toward more productive outcomes.
Looking forward to having you all as long term EBL members.
Kind Regards
Troy
Hi Sharon,
just wanted to update everyone. Craig has gotten the corporate information updated on the Nevada registration website.
https://esos.state.nv.us/SOSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/CorpDetails.aspx?lx8nvq=kB9vso81Z0mcZhPgKgxhcg%3d%3d
Craig has also talked directly with the IRA company investigator on May 11 I believe it was. Just waiting for feed back from them now.
Hello All,
Interesting posts by all about EBL. I have been researching the online “ROL” program category and was close to becoming a member with Legisi before they unexpectedly changed the program by going private 2 weeks early and closing the doors to new members last night! Maybe that was sign from the heavens for me to consider other sources. Anyway, I listened to the candid and frank interview of CEO Craig Jolly and have to say that I was more than impressed with his knowledgeable responses and evident intellect. These are the kind of merits I look for when separating with my money in ventures with with uncertain outcomes.
The question I have though is what is average interest paid to EBL lenders for the various loan amount programs. I scoured the website looking for this info and it would be great knowing the idea of loaned funds returns.
Thanks!
Hi Zman,
The rates are on the front page.
it is under Daily Rate (%)
This is a standard non compounding daily rate.
For ex: $1001 in the 30 day fund will return you 15% for the loan period.
Hope that helps.
Regards
Troy
Epayday has an update for you.
http://earnbyloaning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=706#706
Chew on that for a while.
Nice attitude!
“Chew on that for a while.”
Curt,
I think you should give more credit to EBL_Admin.
Do you honestly think he meant it to have a negative tone, especially to the good people on this forum.
It is a figure of speech.
like.. “there you go” or “sink your teeth into this great info”
Or did I misunderstand what you meant Curt?
Kind Regards
Troy
Thnx Troy btw for the infos you gave me above… and sorry to reply so late, was busy!
I guess I didn’t come across very well there Curt. It was meant for those seriously considering EBL, to give them something to really look at as part of their own DD. It was not meant as a dig at anyone.
Understood