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www.usdoj.gov (actual unsealed indictment .pdf)
The E-GOLD Operation
Because of the lack of controls as compared to those present with other payment systems, E-GOLD has been a highly-favored method of payment by operators of investment scams, which generally refers to pyramids, ponzis, HYIPs (i.e., high-yield investment programs) and other “get-rich-quick”schemes. These scams typically promise abnormally high short-term returns on investments, but rather than paying investors any actual returns on real investments, the scams pay investors with new, incoming investment money from other investors in the scam.
Eventually, the operators of the scam either disappear with all the investment money or the scam collapses because investment naturally slows as the scam grows and the operators are unable to continue paying out the promised returns. E-GOLD has been favored in this area particularly because of a user’s ability to operate accounts anonymously, and E-GOLD’s policy of making all transfers of “c-gold” irrevocable and not subject to reversal.
24. Thousands of E-GOLD accounts have been opened using the term “hyip” in either the account-owner’s name or e-mail address, or where “hyip” appears in the “memo” field of the transaction record. E-GOLD employees knew and understood that these accounts were used to fund investment scams, yet took no proactive measures to prevent the use of the E - GOLD system for this activity.
Popularity: 3% [?]
some are scams (most) but how do they determine which are legit? They can’t. Its best if a legit operator does not use egold, and does not use anonymity - I hope the end IS near for scams, it’s true, there are way too many. We should however be free to invest in non-US connected private free enterprise without interferance.
What is “c-gold”?
c-gold is e-gold but misspelled…
hmm… I sense a disturbance in the force..the dark side is on the move!
IF the US wants to prosecute investment scams and Ponzi’s. Why the hell don’t they start with Social Security, its well known that the current payees into the system are paying the current recepients, because of the fiscal irresponsibility of our politicians the actual trust fund was spent decades ago. At least I have the option to not use my e-gold funds in a particular HYIP, I have no options when it comes to the Social Security taken out of each and every paycheck I have ever earned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
calvint - believe it or not, you actually do have a choice. Most people don’t realize this, but if you go the Social Security’s website itself - there is a page on there which explicity tells you, that having a SSN is completely optional.
Although it’s easier said than done, you could try and pressure the payroll department at your company to stop withholding money for social security, by signing some kind of a statement stating that you’re aware of the consequences (lesser or absent payments when you reach retirement age).
I haven’t done it myself (quit working at a JustOverBroke 2 years ago) but I’ve read on the ‘net of people that have pulled it off.
More to the topic though, I think people should have the right to invest or gamble in whatever they want, no government needs to intervene in people’s personal financial decisions, thank you very much.
Ya I have heard the arguments about SSI being optional, and yes it does say that in the SSI act, As i do not personally know anyone who has succesfully opted out I was getting my undies in a bunch and contacted them directly and here is the response:
“Question: Can I opt out of Social Security?
Can I withdraw taxes that I have paid for Social Security coverage?
Answer:
No. Social Security coverage is mandatory. But consider this: unlike your private plan, Social Security provides disability and survivors coverage in addition to retirement benefits. And Social Security generally offers greater protection for family members than private pensions.
The law also does not permit a refund of Social Security taxes.”
Federally mandated Ponzi, with no hope of any kind of decent return on my money, I love Freedom!!!!!!!!!
Well i agree i should have the choice to make a few bucks online.Some of them are scams and we still bet on them.Thats no different how the casino’s here in las vegas works.Some win some lose.
Calvint
There is one way for you to legally opt out of ever paying social security again, GET ELECTED TO CONGRESS. Shoot, if I remember correctly, all you need is one term and you are set for life with their fancy retirement plan, They keep raising it, but I think their pension pays 15k a month for life.
Now why is it that the social security plan they force on us ( because they think average American John Smith is to stupid to take care of himself) isn’t good enough for them? I consider it just another tax that I’m forced to pay because I will never see a dime of my money by the time I reach retirement age. They could learn a lot from Chile.
Now this is what I am talking about, Music to my ears!!!
It is about time that their has been some Major reform in this particular area of the EG Community.
It is time to put an end to these scammers.
These guys make millions of dollars ripping us off we are debating Social Security, C’mon guys!! At least the USA provides something back; these scammers live a nice lifestyle on our hard earned dollars.
David Smile
Bob Krimm
Team Smallvile
Hakan Yalincak
And others; the end is here boys and girls,. Hope you all saved enough from your scams for your defense funds cause your gonna need it!
I think Egold should work with the DOJ in eliminating some of the serious charges and Focus on this area instead!!
Tony Rivers
Hey Mr. DOJ — someone stole my gold!
Please help me catch the scumbag who did it!
Here are the real world facts of what has happened to me:
I decided to keep a percentage of my personal assets in gold. After much research it was my opinion the best option was to use 1mdc as a storage system. There were several reasons I selected 1mdc. First of all there were no long term storage fees. Second, I could exchange the gold for cash fairly conveniently by using an ATM card. Yes, there would be some fees, but if an emergency arose that required me converting some of the gold in to cash it could be done quickly…and the fees for the ATM card were still much better than trying to sell gold coins to a pawn shop. Boy was I wrong…I think I got scammed.
I sent my money to an exchange provider, who to my shock operated honorably and actually provided me with the e-gold. Just what they advertised! Then e-gold allowed me to spend my e-gold in to a 1mdc account. You’re not going to believe this, but e-gold actually allowed my transaction to take place! Just like they advertised! Woah.
But now some nameless scumbag (you) will not allow me to move my 1mdc grams back in to e-gold!
I don’t know about other users of e-gold, but the only personage who has behaved criminally with my accounts is the U.S. Federal Government.
I hope you enjoy the money. Maybe my money can help you buy another RV or tank to roll around in Iraq with.
Personally, I wish I gave it to a hyip scammer rather than having the government take it. At least I could imagine the scammer having a couple of great weekends with some hotties…I hate to think what you’d spend it on in Iraq.
Hey DOJ…You know where you can put your press release.
I have no doubt that e-gold knew (and knows at that moment) that people are being scammed. The question becomes WHY would it be e-gold’s responsibility to Investigate the businesses using there services? I agree that some policies should be rethought but it isn’t till after a program disappears that anything can be done anyway.
I wonder when they will apply the same statement to the guns.
99% of guns owner in the US aren’t qualified for and potential killers, so better to stop producing and selling guns
Actually the federal retirement plan allows the politicians to draw their same wage plus inflation adjustments even after they are not in office anymore. The arguement that they use for this, is if they were to be under the social security system then they would directly control the system that they use for their own retirement.
What a line of BS!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t recall ever voting on any elected officials retirement plan, so who controls it? Of course they do.
The sad thing is I bet 9 out of ten americans can name the last four on American Idol, or who played in the last couple of superbowls, but politics and things that actually matter to there well being, not a clue! Its a sad state, the ignorance of the American people.
you should see the criminal backgrounds on a number of our officials, not so pretty, why is this never brought up in the media? Becuase we are a nation of talking heads, I don’t even think its conspiracy, just ignorance.
Personally I think Ron Paul would be a good pick for the next Pres but thats just my opinion.
I believe that this statement is something most players already know. Most if not all HYIP and Autosurf programs that are promoted using the various methods of monitors and HYIP forums are ponzi’s and should be taken as so until proven otherwise.
E-gold has made its own bed previously and because of irrevocable transactions and anomility of accounts and I personally would look forward to the HYIP and autosurf arena being monitored to the point of only real investments being allowed in the arena.
But that just ain’t going to happen in a flash if at all due to the spread of sites throughout the globe. The only way to scratch the surface is via e-currency sites such as e-gold and now and then this happens the last upheaval was the stormpay debacle with 12DP and various other sites.
The future is uncertain rather like gambling your money in HYIP and Autosurf sites. But one thing is for sure the HYIP and autosurf arena is still going to be around for some time and people are still going to loose money in a multi million dollar illegal arena perhaps not what people want to here but true.
What stops Jackson in the future, from, when it gets too hot under his feets, to unofficially sell e-gold to someone outside the US? I am sure someone will be willing to buy e-gold, its a very lucrative business as long as the feds or the DOJ don’t interfer. If the new-owner of e-gold lives abroad how are the DOJ gonna sue this new owner? They will not be able too as omnipay would be funded 100% outside the US and they cant just travel abroad and arrest the new owner.
There are a couple of points I’ll sadly make. (1) HYIPs are not investments as far a US law enforcement is concerned, legal investments have disclosures on them about risk and loss. And the person or account these investments are purchased through, is administered by a licensed person legal to make that judgement and disclosures. Have you ever seen the disclosures on a Mutual Fund? Is like 20 pages long. If all HYIPs put extensive disclosures and verified each client is capable of sustaining that loss and not changing his or her lifestyle(before adding funds) just like any other private solicitation for an investment, do you think HYIP’s popularity would be different? These are NOT legal US investments.
(2)Sending money to an HYIP is NOT like ‘playing or betting’ with an online casino because anyone who gambles in an online casino KNOWS they can win or lose their money and its a game of odds. Show me a HYIP that discloses “You may lose your money”…. or “Enjoy playing our game I hope you are a winner and don’t lose your money, because some people win and some lose” …”enjoy betting on a winner but you also may lose”. HYIPs don’t do either disclosures or even make an attempt to do these so the US labels them illegal or at least unethical/immoral and bad… at this time. Casinos, even online casinos, are also restricted and licensed in most all jurisdictions and covered by laws on who can play (18 ages).
HYIPs are not marketed as ‘games’ of risk and don’t have a the structure or even the similarities of a legal ‘investment’ they fall squarely into the scam category. If you look at the structure and history of them, you can squarely point out the items which make them scams as apposed to being and ‘investment’ or ‘game’. Legal investments, all have certain characteristics and follow guidelines no matter what jurisdiction you are in. Scams do also.
Sorry not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the obvious, when I hear these things, “We should however be free to invest in non-US connected private free enterprise without interferance.” …”we still bet on them.Thats no different how the casino’s here in las vegas works. Some win some lose.”….
YES, there are great differences in US legal ‘investments’ how they are sold and by whom. Also casino or online games all show a series of items making them ‘games’ and not something else, where HYIPs do not exhibit those same items and do not fall into the ‘game’ category for all users.
Mark
Another note, after reading the actual indictment, in my opinion it looks like the .gov is saying ‘gold is money’ and you are transmitting gold so you are transmitting money. By that strategy, they are a money transmitter. Its just a legal strategy but that does appear to follow the ’spirit’ of the law even though its not yet written own in any law books. A court will have to rule on it.
They have trademarked phrases on their web like ‘Better Money’ or Gold is money…. I think the legal strategy is to play off of that type of stuff.
I’ve also been reviewing the 2.5 hours of video, it pathetic how the senators asking questions don’t even know how to fund an e-gold account. YouTube is going to have a ball with this stuff.
Mark
It is totally ridiculous to make egold responsible to police the (unlawful) activities of its customers. It is the responsibility of law enforcement to do that!
Shame on you to act like NAZI germany and confiscate the accounts of thousands of law abiding users of e-gold money (1mdc)!
The US used to be the country looked up to as the lighthouse of freedom.
Whenever the government think they need to protect the citizens from themselves, watch out…. and resist!
Osama has already won, when he turned the US into a GESTAPO prison.
“I’ve also been reviewing the 2.5 hours of video, it pathetic how the senators asking questions don’t even know how to fund an e-gold account. YouTube is going to have a ball with this stuff.”
Can you please provide a link to this video material :)? plz
http://energycommerce.house.gov/reparchives/108/Hearings/09212006hearing2032/hearing.htm
The report shown us that they have audited e-gold database that they raid in Dec 2005. I think e-gold owner know that this case (claim/charge) will pop up and againts them. I guess they have a long internal discuss since they decide to put e-gold in the court and elected the Jury BUT FAIL.
We will see how do e-gold fight back.
How can they determine which HYIP is ponzi and which is not until they look at each and every individual HYIP finances. Just like they accuse e-gold as being guilty before being innocent and going public in a defamation campaign they now seek to justify the false accusations on e-gold with even more guilt before innocence charges. What’s at stake here is the rule of law and due process. Perhaps the world has gone back in time and it’s a free for all. No wonder we can no longer determine who the real crooks !
I have been informed by IRS that anyone that participates in these HYIP- they tell me that they are ALL PONZI!!!!!!!!!!! — Anyone - and now MYSELF- are subject to being now charged as participating in and promoting PONZI - because of the referral link on the websites and such- So NOW I need an attorney to defend me: Don’t want to go to jail: ANYONE know an atorney to defend me? Guess IRS will now prosecute all participants in PONZI-HYIPs and that just had a referral link on the website they used in doing the auto-surf things and such: like 12DP and others….I need advice as to how I am to defend myself in the criminal prosecution- and maybe others will be prosecuted by FBI/ IRS too….
Jailbird- HYIP participant
That’s the problem with the feds. They ought to look at programs on a case by case basis instead of dumping blame onto the generic community.
But that’s probably what the IRS wants to do since people don’t report their income from such stuff to pay tax. Bah.
E-gold has 10 years (about 120 month!!!) long History.
Any normal online Bank has no more than 3 months!!!
In Which Case IS DOJ or anybody (CIA, FBI, MI-5 etc.) able to Investigate Money Launderings????????
Or any SCAMs?
My opinion: behind current HYIPs — There Are CIA or FBI agents!!!!!
BULLSHIT American Democracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Americans are the leading genocidium makers in the Guinness Records
(Indians, Negrous, Brain drain, gold feever etc.)
And now, ROB ALL OVER THE WORLD, every pure people!
Even theirs NATO partners, too!
8-((((((((((((ZsaPa from Budapest-HU-EU
freelancer computer edcator-journalist
PS: anticancer lobbist (supporting Vit.B17 & Cryo-WheatGrass-Juice)
www.fej.hu/
Watch your sloppy generalizations there, PalZsadanyi. I would think a so-called “journalist” would be a bit more concerned about accurate reporting. “Americans” are not the leading “genocidium makers”, but normal, non-policymaking, “pure” people like everyone else. A few Americans (politicians, naturally) may be guilty of what you are suggesting, but history is a sure teacher, and history says they aren’t exceptional, or alone. Take Arpad’s role in the Magyar conquest of the Pannonian basin in the 9th-10th centuries from your own history, as an example.
“E-gold has 10 years (about 120 month!!!) long History.
Any normal online Bank has no more than 3 months!!!”
Whoops…I were supposed to say the ramblings of a mad man to the quote below.
“E-gold has 10 years (about 120 month!!!) long History.
Any normal online Bank has no more than 3 months!!!”
Well, when you have an economy laden with debt and trade deficites the only way out is devaluation. Anything that smacks of a gold standard or inflation proof store of value has to be target number one. Who cares what excuses are used and what charges are leveled. The timing of the action reveals everything. The only safe store of value today is gold. The price is bound to rocket north. Forget e-gold buy gold coins and hide them before government eventually confiscates them.
Oh… before I forget… to convince everyone that I’m on a rant … yes we will be having a war with Iran. The coffers need filling. The chest is empty. That’s how all wars start.
andrewunknown
OK!
Magyarok are the most stupid people on the world!
2 magyar, together, nowhere and never on the World can behave normally!
Have more Übermensch manner, then the Germans.
Maybe, inherited from the Austrian-Hungarian Monarchy.
Last example of a Hungarian: NICOLAS (MIKLÓS) SARKOZY (SÁRKÖZI).
:-((((((((((((((((((((((
Yet, I say contemporary Americans same guilty for those genocidiums,
as the middle age Konkvistadors!
I have seen crime stories on the Cable TV: NatGeo, Discovery, Spectrum….
Both Indian and Black people made big & current complaints…
But sorry. As concerns History — Full topic: “Transaction History Listing”
Sorry for my HUNGLISH!:-)ZsaPa
I just wanted to reply to Next Guy when he said,
“Shame on you to act like NAZI germany and confiscate the accounts of thousands of law abiding users of e-gold money (1mdc)! The US used to be the country looked up to as the lighthouse of freedom.”
Hey, I agree with you, and just for the record my 1MDC accounts got seized like the others. I am not siding with the secret service in the e-gold matter, I was just pointing out what I can see as their strategy from the information in the indictment. I don’t agree with it, NO NO, but I think I can point in the direction they are going….having read the NETeller stuff and where they went with that one.
No shame on me please! I used to keep that light burning in the lighthouse you mention.
Mark